Feature #1970
openSub documents for sources
Description
Many of the source documents we read contain parts that can be considered subdocuments. For example, a notary has a record book where each note should be referenced with an identifier.
Obviously, it can be done by creating a source document for each note, but I was wondering if there is another way.
It is also important that in the links with actors, places, etc. they can link straight to the subdocument
Update: could be implemented with
"Source 1" (E33 - linguistic object) - P148 has component - "Subdivision of Source 1" (E33)
Updated by Alexander Watzinger almost 3 years ago
- Subject changed from How referenc sub documents of source documents to How to reference sub documents of sources
- Category set to CRM
- Status changed from New to Assigned
- Assignee set to Stefan Eichert
This looks like a question for our model expert Stefan so I assigned it to him.
@ @Stefan Eichert: I sometimes assign questions like these to you without asking before. I know that your time is very limited so feel free to remove yourself as assignee anytime and I will think of something else. It just works quicker that way and I hope, that is ok with you.
Updated by Stefan Eichert almost 3 years ago
- Status changed from Assigned to Acknowledged
Currently this is not implemented in OpenAtlas.
In theory this could be mapped with P148 has component (is component of) https://www.cidoc-crm.org/node/8215
"Source 1" (E33 - linguistic object) - P148 has component - "Subdivision of Source 1" (E33)
Updated by Alexander Watzinger almost 3 years ago
- Tracker changed from Question to Feature
- Subject changed from How to reference sub documents of sources to Sub documents for sources
- Description updated (diff)
- Assignee deleted (
Stefan Eichert) - Target version set to Wishlist
Thank you both for asking and answering.
Because there is a need for it and we already got the model mapping I turned this into a feature request and put it in on the wishlist for now.
Updated by Alexander Watzinger almost 2 years ago
- Related to Feature #2242: Contextual/hierarchical arrangement of subordinate items added
Updated by Alexander Watzinger 6 months ago
- Status changed from Acknowledged to Assigned
- Assignee set to Enric Rodellas
In our latest developer meeting we discussed a similar situation at another project.
@Stefan Eichert suggested that instead using a source with sub sources (which isn't implemented so far) to create an edition which "contains" all the sub sources.
This can be done, e.g at a source view in the reference tab (or the other way round).
Assigned this issue to @Enric Rodellas, kindly asking for feedback if this would be a viable solution for your case.
Updated by Enric Rodellas 6 months ago
I agree that it's very important for the user interface to handle sub-events, sub-documents, etc., and therefore, dedicating a tab to it seems appropriate. However, there are two very important issues for me:
- Obtaining an identifier for each sub-part (E42 Identifier) (Full identifier: Main Document + subpart)
- Sub-parts (in the case of documents) can be diverse:
- # 2.1 Pages
- # 2.2 Chapters
- # 2.3 Sections
- # 2.4 ...
and these sub-parts can coexist in the same document (one tab for each group of sub-parts?)
In previous post was proposed an implementation:
"Source 1" (E33 - linguistic object) - P148 has component - "Subdivision of Source 1" (E33)
But lets to me show an specific example:
Let’s say you have: A notarial book: “Protocol Book of Notary Joan Serra (1632)” An entry: “Sale of a house on Carrer Major”, located on page 45, entry no. 125 You could model it as: - *E31 Document* → The full protocol book - *E73 Information Object* (or E90) → The individual notarial entry - P106 is composed of or P165 incorporates → To indicate the book includes the entry - *E42 Identifier* → “entry 125, page 45” - *E41 Appellation* → If you want to include a textual label You could link the E31 Document to a physical object (E84 Information Carrier) or a digital scan (E73) depending on the material
or consider:
- Use E73 Information Object to represent specific, identifiable segments of information (e.g., a page or an entry). - Link them to the document (E31 Document) using P165 incorporates or P106 is composed of. - Use E42 Identifier or E41 Appellation to indicate location or reference info (e.g., “page 45”, “entry 125”). - Use E90 Symbolic Object if the unit is more conceptual or abstract (like a named clause or legal phrase).
In short: the CIDOC model allows for different options for subdocuments, and if we add the handling of sub-events, it is a challenge for the Openatlas architect and programmers.
Updated by Alexander Watzinger 6 months ago
- Status changed from Assigned to Acknowledged
- Assignee deleted (
Enric Rodellas)
Thank you for the feedback.
Artifacts which contain/display the source can already be connected to the source with the artifact field at insert/update of a source, see manual.
The underlying mapping in OpenAtlas is: E22 Human-made Object (artifact) -> P128 (carries) -> E33 Linguistic Object (source).
As for the sub documents of sources: it seems you would need a much more detailed structure so that the workaround to "collect" sub texts via one reference (e.g. an edition) wouldn't suffice, so we will keep this issue open.
Thanks again for the feedback and also for the new translations (#2572)
Updated by Stefan Eichert 6 months ago
Hi everyone! Thanks for the very elaborated thoughts on this. The mappings suggested by Enric seem a good way to map the examples.
However this is not yet implemented in OpenAtlas.
A way/workaround would be this (using Enric's Example) :
Let’s say you have: A notarial book: “Protocol Book of Notary Joan Serra (1632)” An entry: “Sale of a house on Carrer Major”, located on page 45, entry no. 125 You could model it as: - *E31 Document* → The full protocol book, E.g. with the type (E55) Edition/Protocol book or any other meaningful typology defined by you. - *E33 Linguistic Object/Source* → The individual notarial entry - P67 is referred to by (between book and entry: “entry 125, page 45” - stored in the link description between E31 and E33) → To indicate the book includes the entry - *Name of the Source* → If you want to include a textual label (can be resolved as Identifier) You could link the E33 (Source/lunguistic object) Document to a physical object (E22 Human made object/ Open Atlas Artifact) via P128 (carries) - Information Carrier is deprecated and no longer in the currend CRM definitions.
We were planning an overwork of the UI for historical/textual entries #1064 that would make that workflow more comprehensive, it is on the wishlist.
hope this helps!
best regards,
Stefan
Updated by Alexander Watzinger 4 months ago
- Related to Question #2607: Proposal: Add date to source E33 added